Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

A long kiss goodnight

=== One thing I have been wondering with my newer approach inspired from Zen is if it's actually effective or not. When I share the newer advice, I have the feeling people are still struggling with parrotnoia. The thinking is it's purely a mindset issue and if people recognize talking to your tulpa isn't going to be an alien or foreign experience from before, their anxiety will decrease. However, I don't know if that's actually happening For context, I'll try and grab some links: https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431895651266330644/1035301293725581372 https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/821731704112152576/1024296248188092446 https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431591449348276224/1022303762762694687 (edited)

@Deleted User @Thesigma @Lexa Howdy all! I'm trying to assess how effective my experimental advice is for parrotnoia and I want to know if it helped any of you guys. I saw you guys were around when I was giving that advice and I would like your feedback. First link- Cypher Second link- Wysper Third link- Axel

A long kiss goodnight

There are a lot of similar ideas in tulpamancy. It's pretty fascinating to see how people's different takes can be boiled down sometimes

also, i havent really seen anyone explain parrotnoia in that specific way

5:43 PM

its usually always more of "if you didn't intend it your not parroting"

5:44 PM

we expanded on it and also added that even if you are parroting, there is no reason to be distressed about it

I typically see that too. I do however find some people will say, "it's safe to parrot it doesn't matter" and another person who said something similar to what I was saying in the past, which was there is accidental parroting but it doesn't matter. I typically add the fact I like to think of it as your tulpa sorting out who they are and cherry picking what they like about their host, but I have been criticized that last part hasn't made much sense. Sadly, I feel that by itself, none of the above is super effective at extinguishing parrotnoia. Hence my interest in the experimental advice (edited)

even purposeful parroting is useful

A long kiss goodnight

@Deleted User @Thesigma @Lexa Howdy all! I'm trying to assess how effective my experimental advice is for parrotnoia and I want to know if it helped any of you guys. I saw you guys were around when I was giving that advice and I would like your feedback. First link- Cypher Second link- Wysper Third link- Axel

I didn’t have a ton of anxiety surrounding parrotnoia, though? If I did I wasn’t aware of it lol. I do think the chat from yesterday helped, because Dazai’s been speaking a bit more liberally and Lila spoke (!!!) for the first time since she’d said her name (which was a few weeks ago) today. I think you pointing out my issue with interrupting my flow because of doubt helped a lot, and I just solved the rest of it from there. For communication now, I end up letting my thoughts run wild and then if anything does not seem like myself I pick it out and ask who said it, and then respond if they respond. Haven’t tried prompting anything and then attempting to get a response with the mindvoice yet though.

5:52 PM

*doubt from being capable of receiving a response, I mean, not doubt that it’s them

That's awesome!

A long kiss goodnight

@Deleted User @Thesigma @Lexa Howdy all! I'm trying to assess how effective my experimental advice is for parrotnoia and I want to know if it helped any of you guys. I saw you guys were around when I was giving that advice and I would like your feedback. First link- Cypher Second link- Wysper Third link- Axel

Uh I mean yeah I’d say it probably helped, I’m at the point where I’m doing that thing where I attribute any thought to either me or my tulpa but alas I’m still not at a point where I can be super sure yet, I’m still not getting answers when I prompt them and give silence

What kind of questions are you asking them? I wonder if I can help you with that problem

Lynn [TTG]

Our mindset is firstly that it doesn't really matter in the end who is generating the responses because they are generated by the mind, and if associated with a thoughtform will belong to it Secondly, that it doesn't matter if you are parroting because it is still the thoughtform essentially, like when you remote control a dream character, you may be controlling it but it is still the dream character doing the action (is atleast a good way to look at it)

Our mindset is firstly that it doesn't really matter in the end who is generating the responses because they are generated by the mind, and if associated with a thoughtform will belong to it

Can you expand on that? Does that mean there's no difference between the two headmates other than picking who said the thing?

A long kiss goodnight

I don't have any suggestions, it's really solid. I do feel that it's like a more clean version of other advice I have seen. I don't know if it's 100% original but it's definitely laying out ideas a lot of people have all in a neat explanation

i mean sure, it’s basically what lolcery has seen being discussed and advice he was given on this server

but he tends to do that, taking something someone said and repeating it with confidence, and when someone asks to explain something more deeply or further he says he’s bad in explaining (edited)

10:24 PM

https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431591449348276224/1022303762762694687 I’m surprised you only got it from Zen after we’ve been talking about it over and over and over again whenever parrotnoia was brought up…

(edited)

10:27 PM

i talk about problems related to tulpamancy being self inflicted all the time, not just parrotnoia… oh well (edited)

i don’t mind who gets credit, it just makes me wonder how much you can keep repeating yourself and people not registering it

i wonder if it has been registered that so far 100% of people who tried using the pendulum method i keep sharing got communication with a tulpa within minutes. what lolcery here claims is his mindset is what i kept repeating over and over again as the base for how and why the pendulum method works

I'm sorry An, Zen mentioning it helped my lightbulb go off. However, if you have been saying this all along, I don't see much point in giving the credit to Zen as if he came up with the idea originally

Honestly, the big thing I'm not so sure about is the long-term outcome with parrotnoia advice. When I was asking for advice, it was mostly to reassure my anxiety, not because I was learning a brand new concept or even really grasping what I was being told. I have tried having Ranger create head pressures on purpose, but then I started to doubt those. I remember making progress for a brief period of time after I was given advice, but then I would struggle again when my anxiety flared up. I have been given advice on how tulpas work I have since forgotten, because at the end of the day I wasn't really digesting anything, I just wanted someone to tell me I'm not crazy and I'm on the right track. This is why I'm skeptical of Ranger's approach, and why Ranger admitted to me she is also skeptical of this approach. Then again, I am more anxious than your average tulpamancer, so maybe this doesn't apply to everyone *Lots of edits, because apparently I forgot how to communicate in English (edited)

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

i mean sure, it’s basically what lolcery has seen being discussed and advice he was given on this server

but he tends to do that, taking something someone said and repeating it with confidence, and when someone asks to explain something more deeply or further he says he’s bad in explaining (edited)

I mean we honestly do not remember the conversation with you

2:14 AM

And we actually thought that it came from our conversations with ranger

2:19 AM

And we are very bad at explaining

The thing about trying to help parrotnoid hosts is that most of them are desperately clinging to idealized tulpa goals; they want a totally separate being to appear to them and feel alien and be very different from them. Often they don't even want to give their tulpa name/form/traits to begin with. They want tulpamancy to be "real" and they don't want to do anything that feels like faking (i.e. parroting) And any advice/words like "don't parrot" or "you'll just know" or "my tulpa did XYZ amazing thing and yours can too" might weigh more heavily than advice that feels disillusioning or like they might end up faking

Lynn [TTG]

And we actually thought that it came from our conversations with ranger

oh hi lynnn remember me?

Yuka

The thing about trying to help parrotnoid hosts is that most of them are desperately clinging to idealized tulpa goals; they want a totally separate being to appear to them and feel alien and be very different from them. Often they don't even want to give their tulpa name/form/traits to begin with. They want tulpamancy to be "real" and they don't want to do anything that feels like faking (i.e. parroting) And any advice/words like "don't parrot" or "you'll just know" or "my tulpa did XYZ amazing thing and yours can too" might weigh more heavily than advice that feels disillusioning or like they might end up faking

This is how wesley was for 6 months

I've seen people stuck for years

Yuka

The thing about trying to help parrotnoid hosts is that most of them are desperately clinging to idealized tulpa goals; they want a totally separate being to appear to them and feel alien and be very different from them. Often they don't even want to give their tulpa name/form/traits to begin with. They want tulpamancy to be "real" and they don't want to do anything that feels like faking (i.e. parroting) And any advice/words like "don't parrot" or "you'll just know" or "my tulpa did XYZ amazing thing and yours can too" might weigh more heavily than advice that feels disillusioning or like they might end up faking

This

A long kiss goodnight

@Deleted User @Thesigma @Lexa Howdy all! I'm trying to assess how effective my experimental advice is for parrotnoia and I want to know if it helped any of you guys. I saw you guys were around when I was giving that advice and I would like your feedback. First link- Cypher Second link- Wysper Third link- Axel

Hello sorry for the late response (edited)

1:14 AM

ill try it out tonight

Ill update you

1

Lynn [TTG]

the less you fear parroting, the better off you will be. any revisions you recommend?

Hi I'm new here and I'm not so good at English , but I've been working on my tulpa for 5 months now and I've been using the parroting method and now I can't tell the differences between if I'm parroting now or it's his response I hope you understand what I'm saying

Sellato

Hi I'm new here and I'm not so good at English , but I've been working on my tulpa for 5 months now and I've been using the parroting method and now I can't tell the differences between if I'm parroting now or it's his response I hope you understand what I'm saying

Hey it's all good! Can I say hi to your tulpa? It may help if you have a chance to see your tulpa talking to someone else (edited)

A long kiss goodnight

Hey it's all good! Can I say hi to your tulpa? It may help if you have a chance to see your tulpa talking to someone else (edited)

Yeah of course you can his name is sheen

like in Jimmy Neutron?

Hi I'm new here and I'm not so good at English , but I've been working on my tulpa for 5 months now and I've been using the parroting method and now I can't tell the differences between if I'm parroting now or it's his response I hope you understand what I'm saying

@Sellato - jump When I was 2 months old, my host also used parroting method, but he pretend that was my response

3:54 PM

and Hi Sheen

Hey I'm asking for a friend, I don't know if this is all real or in my head. I'm just confused and need help please-

Hi asking for a friend, I'm Glitch

Bubbles

Hey I'm asking for a friend, I don't know if this is all real or in my head. I'm just confused and need help please-

hm?

Thesigma

Hello sorry for the late response (edited)

sorry havent tried it out, how do you do it?

3:08 PM

Anyway

3:09 PM

I don't understand having another 'mind', and thinking that my response with my tulpa is just me or its ACTUALLY my tulpa

3:09 PM

cause if its just me, i feel like im delusional

3:09 PM

Ahahahah

3:10 PM

And like

3:10 PM

I can't hear them physically

3:10 PM

its just like in my mind

and Hi Sheen

@Emily Stassia (@Yonei (4E)) - jump HI Emily

Emily Stassia

Hi I'm new here and I'm not so good at English , but I've been working on my tulpa for 5 months now and I've been using the parroting method and now I can't tell the differences between if I'm parroting now or it's his response I hope you understand what I'm saying

@Sellato - jump When I was 2 months old, my host also used parroting method, but he pretend that was my response

But Isn't that how parroting works,that your host pretend that it was your answer until you could answer by your self?

Yes

3:34 PM

Before parroting, I tried body language to communicate, but it's hard to express more complex ideas

Thesigma

I can't hear them physically

most of the time you can't hear actual words but you can feel there answer there intention

Emily Stassia

Before parroting, I tried body language to communicate, but it's hard to express more complex ideas

The thing is I can feel my sheen a lot around me but I'm afraid I got used to answering for him

Have a trust in Sheen, you can try ask if that's his response or not.

3:42 PM

In my host case, he just fake it until it become real

3:43 PM

Maybe not the best advice lol

Emily Stassia

Maybe not the best advice lol

Okay thanks for the advice , we started practicing on his voice in Wonderland a week ago, wish me luck

Having a distinct voice also help

3:56 PM

Have fun

@Emily Stassia (@Yonei (4E)) - jump we will✨️

we will✨️

@sheen (@Sellato) - jump I'm curious, do you have any form? : o

Thesigma

sorry havent tried it out, how do you do it?

It's more a mindset that something you take steps to complete:

Usually a tulpa being "unable to communicate" is typically a matter of mindset. If you don't think your tulpa's words are their own, then it will cause delays in progress.

Given that, the biggest warning sign would be a lack of progress. If you haven't made progress in a month, but honestly even in two weeks, you may greatly benefit from changing your approach to vocality.

If you're feeling frustrated with your approach now, reassessing may help. With another tulpamancer's help I realized that parrotnoia is likely self-inflicted anxiety. I wasn't completely clear on the cause lately, but I suspect it's a combination of challenging the idea not everything in your head is you and expectation of an alien or exceptional experience. I believe understanding why parrotnoia happens may help ease those fears.

I have shared my thoughts on this before, I'll find a link

https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431591449348276224/1022303762762694687

Speaking of parrotnoia, I have some more thoughts on it. I think I have a basic understanding of the problem- beginners are stressed tulpamancy is fake for whatever reason. Typically they're looking for reassurance more than anything, but some get stuck due to an underlying mindset. Perhaps it's not the advice itself but rather the application. Just recently, Yuka made a really good point that beginners are more receptive to advice that's simple and affirming, which was the opposite of what I was going for. I'm thinking that if the simple advice is best but the simple advice alone isn't enough given the fact it's still an issue, then it could be an issue with the delivery. An already made significant progress with this by introducing the pendulum method. It's decently effective, but deep down I don't want to embrace the advice because I don't want people to feel limited to talking to their tulpas with a pendulum. However, I think this is the kind of thinking that may be helpful. I wonder if it would be helpful to start with what the beginner thinks and go from there. I know I have tried this approach before, I think the problem is I'm overcomplicating things by talking too much about how it works. However, I think if there's an unhelpful mindset like tulpas can only talk in lucid dreams present, that should be addressed. I also have the option of just straight up opening the door and talking about the fear of faking. Come to think of it, I don't know if I really do that, at least not so bluntly. However, I think other people have acknowledged this. Maybe instead it's not pointing out the fear but have them face it head on- having others proxy their tulpas can be effective. Like anything else however, there may be multiple ways to go about this depending on the person. I feel like I'm going in a circle though, like I'm so close but somehow off

A long kiss goodnight

It's more a mindset that something you take steps to complete:

Usually a tulpa being "unable to communicate" is typically a matter of mindset. If you don't think your tulpa's words are their own, then it will cause delays in progress.

Given that, the biggest warning sign would be a lack of progress. If you haven't made progress in a month, but honestly even in two weeks, you may greatly benefit from changing your approach to vocality.

If you're feeling frustrated with your approach now, reassessing may help. With another tulpamancer's help I realized that parrotnoia is likely self-inflicted anxiety. I wasn't completely clear on the cause lately, but I suspect it's a combination of challenging the idea not everything in your head is you and expectation of an alien or exceptional experience. I believe understanding why parrotnoia happens may help ease those fears.

I have shared my thoughts on this before, I'll find a link

https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431591449348276224/1022303762762694687

That made me feel so much better I will try to never doubt any more

It's more a mindset that something you take steps to complete:

Usually a tulpa being "unable to communicate" is typically a matter of mindset. If you don't think your tulpa's words are their own, then it will cause delays in progress.  Given that, the biggest warning sign would be a lack of progress. If you haven't made progress in a month, but honestly even in two weeks, you may greatly benefit from changing your approach to vocality.  If you're feeling frustrated with your approach now, reassessing may help. With another tulpamancer's help I realized that parrotnoia is likely self-inflicted anxiety. I wasn't completely clear on the cause lately, but I suspect it's a combination of challenging the idea not everything in your head is you and expectation of an alien or exceptional experience. I believe understanding why parrotnoia happens may help ease those fears.  I have shared my thoughts on this before, I'll find a link  https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431591449348276224/1022303762762694687

@A long kiss goodnight - jump Luckily my host doesn't have any doubt when doing parroting xD

7:33 PM

woops

I'm curious, do you have any form? : o

@Emily Stassia (@Yonei (4E)) - jump I do and I like it

That's the thing though, I think it's okay to have doubt. It's there for a reason. I want to teach people to respect and accept their feelings, not ignore them (edited)

Back then, hostie always seek someone to call/ask me to speak. But I'm really shy lol

Chatting is good, it helps give you experiences to talk about. It's hard in the beginning when your host has spent literally every moment with you

Yup

A long kiss goodnight

Speaking of parrotnoia, I have some more thoughts on it. I think I have a basic understanding of the problem- beginners are stressed tulpamancy is fake for whatever reason. Typically they're looking for reassurance more than anything, but some get stuck due to an underlying mindset. Perhaps it's not the advice itself but rather the application. Just recently, Yuka made a really good point that beginners are more receptive to advice that's simple and affirming, which was the opposite of what I was going for. I'm thinking that if the simple advice is best but the simple advice alone isn't enough given the fact it's still an issue, then it could be an issue with the delivery. An already made significant progress with this by introducing the pendulum method. It's decently effective, but deep down I don't want to embrace the advice because I don't want people to feel limited to talking to their tulpas with a pendulum. However, I think this is the kind of thinking that may be helpful. I wonder if it would be helpful to start with what the beginner thinks and go from there. I know I have tried this approach before, I think the problem is I'm overcomplicating things by talking too much about how it works. However, I think if there's an unhelpful mindset like tulpas can only talk in lucid dreams present, that should be addressed. I also have the option of just straight up opening the door and talking about the fear of faking. Come to think of it, I don't know if I really do that, at least not so bluntly. However, I think other people have acknowledged this. Maybe instead it's not pointing out the fear but have them face it head on- having others proxy their tulpas can be effective. Like anything else however, there may be multiple ways to go about this depending on the person. I feel like I'm going in a circle though, like I'm so close but somehow off

simpler=better

since simplicity that i have been trying to promote for a long time was brought up, i will also repeat what i used to say quite a lot: for beginner tulpamancers, intellectualising just get on the way of the process the thing that you call mindset, you can't change it just by logic (edited)

8:22 PM

i think the main problem with a lot of guides is that most of them are written by people who seem to not remember what it was like in the beginning of the journey and are writing the guide as if to validate their own experience of separateness, don't talk about how tulpas evolve or "feel" at different stages, they go straight to the point they are on now.

in my opinion there is a need of something more grounded that says that it is ok to parrot, that it is a valid way of forcing, especially if you have reaffirming people around you. if people had that in mind, they would expect that it can feel like pretending for a while and wouldn't be disappointed by not having separation straight away. in fact, the doubt would have a different role. if people would know and expect that in the beginning it is ok to "pretend" to be the tulpa, at one point tulpamancer would doubt "wait, is it still me talking, or is it my tulpa already?" rather than "I think it's me talking instead of my tulpa". unfortunately, a lot of tulpamancers would find even bringing it up invalidating to them (edited)

Someone back in the day did write a parroting guide, fun fact. Don't quote me but I think it was JD? It basically told you to wind the tulpa up by parroting for weeks then quit cold turkey as suddenly as possible, and then your tulpa would start responding.

interesting!

Like helping a kid walk then one day saying do it yourself scrub

We plan to write a guide of our own based in the philosophy we use for tulpamancy that would hopefully incorporate what An is discussing. Basically it would be a guide that starts with the most basic things then slowly builds up forever. Obviously it wouldn't actually be forever but we want to push the idea that tulpamancy isn't a do it and done thing, it can be a ongoing process for the rest of your life if you truly desire that separateness and skill building compared to others. That means starting with the basics though which means parroting, say and listen, all the beginner stuff needs to be taught so the ball gets rolling.

Something that's been on my mind lately is this feeling of being tempted to integrate. My headmates are integrating, I know people who want to achieve final fusion or are content being median. Deep down that's not what I really want but one thing caught me off guard- So we had something come up and Gray needed a break from the front. While I was stressed about Gray being switched-out, I wanted to think about integrating. I can't help but think... That doesn't make a whole lot of sense? Why would me integrating with him help this situation? That's just a bizarre thing to think about (edited)

Escapism, you were stressed and didn't wanna deal with it, integration is a growing topic in you all's brain, so integration came to mind first. If you really wanna try it just do a temporary merge. I know a very old tulpa system who's members regularly merge and unmerge without problems. No need for anything permanent or damaging.

Honestly I think you're right, it's just escapism. I know that sometimes when I'm stressed I like to dissociate a little and play mind music over my thoughts. I don't know how I do it I just do. This is probably the same thing but since I'm switched-in, that trick won't work so there's that idea instead

Dawn 🕯

Escapism, you were stressed and didn't wanna deal with it, integration is a growing topic in you all's brain, so integration came to mind first. If you really wanna try it just do a temporary merge. I know a very old tulpa system who's members regularly merge and unmerge without problems. No need for anything permanent or damaging.

Gray and I have merged for fun before, and we have considered merging as an option. I'm not eager to experiment though, deep down I can't consent to a merge with the intent of doing something potentially long-term.

If you could change one thing about how tulpamancy works, what would it be and why?

The thing when you worry about something happening and then your brain tries to make it happen. While it is nice that you can mold how your mind works by just believing it to be like that long enough, it also can cause a lot of issues as well

7:21 PM

Also it would be nice to be able to tell that a headmate wants something without you wondering if it’s just something you want and the brain is just making that happen for you. It takes away the true independence of non host members

Yuka

If you could change one thing about how tulpamancy works, what would it be and why?

Honestly my brain melts just thinking about this question. It's like you asked me "can you tell me what it's like to be autistic?", I have so much information I could draw from but I feel like it's too much. Just to scratch the surface, I don't think I know everything about how tulpamancy works and I don't know what it would mean to change something. It's also extremely complicated, because one change may not change all of tulpamancy, given how subjective the experience is

Yuka

If you could change one thing about how tulpamancy works, what would it be and why?

to make it impossible for people to overcomplicate things

I've been trying to think of my own answer, but dang, it's actually pretty tough

11:22 PM

I want to say something like, the old idealized parallel processing. Because it would be very cool and give us more we could do both while going through the day, and spending deliberate time together in wonderland and whatnot

I think this plush will be the temporary form my Tulpa takes at the moment

I'm curious, has anyone else had plushies involved in their Tulpa? Tbh one of my big reasons for trying to make Elsie is so I can have someone I can obsesess over plushies with

Gray isn't huge into plushies, but I have found I share a lot of Gray's interests. I'm interested in learning, I think talking about various topics is interesting, I like learning about animals. Honestly, the more I think about it the more differences I find. I should also caution that your tulpa may or may not have the same feelings for plushies that you do. Gray's favorite math problem is the Collatz Conjecture, and unless I can whip out a joke or look at a pretty picture, I don't really care about it.

What if I was making liking plushies one of her core personality traits?

I’m pretty sure it’s very likely you will be able to make a tulpa that will be like plushies. Ranger’s point is that tulpas not always end up meeting host’s expectations (edited)

2:56 PM

In my opinion it depends on how much independence you want your tulpa to have. I personally don’t think there is anything wrong in limiting it a bit

Well honestly I'm cool with anyway she develops as long as she's passionate about plushies, is nice and wants me to talk to her

@A long kiss goodnight Following your examples I would advise when designing tests to ensure that there is a very significant difference between one person rapidly switching between two tasks and two tasks being done at the same time It's very hard to measure with millisecond precision (outside a lab environment) the difference between noticing something and then something else or noticing both things are once Same for moving a character The brain can happily autopilot one while focusing on the other and rapidly switch between them When the difference in parallel vs task switching is on the same order as the time it takes to send nerve impulses you might have difficultly telling the difference

That's a fair point. I just happen to be so bad at multitasking that I don't exactly need millisecond precision. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to do the tests myself, have someone else try them out, and see what happens from there. Although at this point, I worry that designing these tests is getting in the way of me doing tulpamancy. I do want to resolve this debate but I'm wondering if all of this is too much for me to make any given statement. Doing this is fun, but I really want to try out my parallel processing ideas

Your efforts in this regard are appreciated by a large portion of the tulpamancy community, I assure you